The popularity of podcasts is at an all-time high. Certainly, they meet the demands of today’s fast-paced and competitive world. Whether you are commuting, doing household chores, or maybe even working, podcasts are a great way to learn more about a plethora of topics without having to find dedicated time for the same. But what if you are a chess aficionado and are looking for some chess podcast recommendations? Perhaps the first and the most common suggestion that you will get is the Perpetual Chess Podcast by Ben Johnson. Launched in late 2016, Perpetual Chess Podcast is undoubtedly one of the leading interview shows in the chess world. Combining his experience as a 2100 chess player and coach with his love for books and history, Ben asks just the right questions to his guests that help him unearth wonderful stories while also retaining an educational value to the conversations – all this without compromising on humour and fun!
As you scroll down, what will transpire is a role reversal – the perennial interviewer turns an interviewee! Ben talks about various aspects of Perpetual Chess and shares some key takeaways from the podcasts. He outlines his favourite chess books – not just the classics but also some modern gems. Towards the end, Ben sheds some light on his life away from chess. Keep reading to know more about this unique personality on the occasion of the International Chess Day!
Shubham Kumthekar:How did you get introduced to the game of chess? I am sure our readers would love to know more about your personal growth as a player!
Ben Johnson: I was introduced to chess by a family friend and learned the rules at the age of 6. I loved the game immediately, but I never found anyone to play with until there was a chess club at my school when I was 12. That is when I started playing tournaments. From that point on, my interest was firmly established and I loved the game ever since.
When and how was the idea of the Perpetual Chess Podcast born?
Around 2015, I was really into podcasts and was getting back to teaching chess after years spent doing other stuff professionally. I wanted to be able to learn more chess while on the go, and there weren’t a lot of chess podcast options. That is how the idea of Perpetual Chess Podcast came into being. However, the podcast didn’t actually begin until December 2016, so it actually took me a long time to stop dragging my feet and to start Perpetual Chess!
As Ben captions this picture on the Perpetual Chess Podcast website: Me, at Perpetual Chess Global Headquarters, AKA my Living Room. The aforementioned humour is apparent, isn’t it!
What were the biggest challenges in kickstarting the podcast and what challenges do you face now as an established podcast in the chess world?
A: Well, as regular Perpetual Chess listeners might have heard me say, I am not especially tech-savvy. So the biggest initial obstacle was definitely the technical side of creating the show. It was finding a professional, Mathew Passy, to do the editing and mixing of the show, which enabled me to take the Perpetual Chess idea from just brainstorming and procrastinating to actual existence.
Now that the show is established, the biggest challenge is often guest sequencing. I release one episode per week and do a monthly ‘bonus pod’ where I and a rotating cast of friends recap a great chess book. I often have to juggle guest interviews that are (a) firmly scheduled (b) tentatively scheduled (c) haven’t heard back from someone who initially expressed interest (d) straight up ignoring my email (e) interesting people eager to be guests on the show but I haven’t found time to fit them in yet.
I am always able to find someone interesting to interview but it can be tricky to find one and only one guest per week, especially with so many chess authors releasing interesting books to discuss.
You are evidently fond of chess books! Which are some of your personal favourites, not just for improvement but also with respect to chess history, openings, etc?
Like a lot of my guests, I gravitate to the ones that hit me in the heart when I was a teenager and was wholly engrossed in chess. That includes Capablanca’s Best Endings by Irving Chernev, Fischer’s 60 Memorable Games, and Masters of the Chessboard by Richard Reti.
Of course now for the show, I read tons of modern books. And honestly, if you remove the nostalgia from the equation, they may even be better. Some recent favorites include Game Changer, On the Origin of Good Moves, Timman’s Titans, and The Anand Files. But I can’t leave out a book that is neither wholly modern nor ancient, but it is probably my #1 favorite – The Seven Deadly Chess Sins by GM Jonathan Rowson.
The famous Seven Deadly Chess Sins by GM Jonathan Rowson is Ben’s #1 pick. GM Adam Tukhaev had recommended Rowson’s other renowned book Chess for Zebras in one of our earlier interviews.
You have interviewed about 160+ guests now, and chess improvement forms an integral part of most of your podcasts. Without giving away too much, can you tell us a couple of improvement advices by your guests that you found extremely useful for yourself or for your students?
For most of us, chess is just a hobby. So at the end of the day, I have to first and foremost echo the advice that GM Jan Gustafsson and GM Erwin L’ami (coming soon) have given on the show – Study chess in a way that you enjoy it!
When I go jogging, I am a guy that doesn’t try to go super fast, and instead I just slowly grind out the 4 miles required to keep me reasonably healthy. I have to say that my chess study is in the same vein – I enjoy solving medium difficulty (for me) tactical puzzles, learning openings, and playing through GM games, but I am rarely inspired to solve difficult endgame studies or to do intense calculation work on my chess. It may be to the detriment of any chess improvement that I might see, but for a 43-year-old working dad, it is the way I approach chess.
The adult improver podcasts are a great concept. What are your thoughts on adult improvement in general?
Thank you. Requests from listeners really pointed me in the direction of the adult improver interviews. I have to say: The longer I do these podcasts, the more appreciation I have for just how difficult it is to improve significantly as an adult, especially once you (a) have hit some sort of plateau (b) are over the age of 30 and have job and family responsibilities. If you fall into these categories, I think you have just got to cut yourself some slack. Work hard on chess if you are inclined, but keep the goals modest like boosting not more than 200 points from your current rating. If you achieve that goal, then you can always make a new goal. But I see a lot of people set distant goals which can ultimately be disheartening.
The most recent podcast in the Adult Improver series featured GM Kevin Goh Wei Ming, who attained the GM title at the relatively late age of 36.
What can you tell us about your life away from chess?
Even before Corona, my life was 95% work and family, but now its 100%. It suits me well, though. When not playing with the kids, I like reading books, watching shows with my wife, following the NBA and Major League Baseball, along with lots of chess, of course.
You run the podcast, are involved in chess coaching, plus you have a young family as well. It’s truly inspiring that you find time for all of these – maybe you can share some time management tips with our readers?
That’s nice of you to say, but I am no busier than your typical working parent! My work is only in the field of chess: Running after-school programs, doing some lessons, and the podcast. So this leads to a schedule where I often have some hours to myself when the kids are at school/daycare. Usually, I have no shortage of things to catch up on during those times, but I am not even the hardest working person in my family – that honour goes to my wife!
What are your future plans for the podcast and also in general?
I am pretty happy with where the podcast is, although I am always hoping to improve the product and grow the audience and, of course, to grow the revenue. Beyond that, I have lots of chess-related ideas that I hope to be able to pursue. They range from book ideas to additional podcasts to YouTube channels. I can only take on one project at a time, so I am hoping to commit to something soon. But with my kids staying home from school/daycare due to the virus, any new project may need to wait a while longer.
Blitzkrieg
One dream guest you wish to have on your podcast…
Beyond the obvious names, someone like GM Jan Timman checks all the boxes for me. He is a legendary player, but his books make it clear that he is a writer at heart, with keen observations and awesome, poetic stories.
Three chess players of all times you would love to have dinner with…
Alexander Grischuk… do I have to invite two more?? Okay fine! We will add Mikhail Tal and Judit Polgar as well.
Even the legendary Judit Polgar has been a guest on the Perpetual Chess Podcast!
Your favourite non-chess book…
Wow, I read a lot, so this is a tough one. I finished Yuval Noah Harari’s Sapiens recently and was kind of blown away. So at the risk of recency bias, I will go with it.
A life quote that you live by..
Life and chess advice both – First, do no harm.
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The Perpetual Chess Podcast can be listened to and followed on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, omny.fm, YouTube, and all other major podcast platforms!
You can follow Ben Johnson on Twitter (his preferred social media platform), the Perpetual Chess Podcast Facebook Group, and on Instagram.
He became India’s 40th Grandmaster in the year 2015. Very soon, he started working as a coach with ambitious Indian players and produced stunning results – his first student Raunak Sadhwani went on to become a Grandmaster at the tender age of 13! He trained other Indian talents too, particularly IM Sankalp Gupta and IM Harshit Raja. In 2018, he added yet another feather to his cap when he began working with the Indian Women’s team. And now in 2020, he is all set to release his first-ever book titled Playing the Petroff – A Bulletproof Repertoire with the renowned publisher Quality Chess!
In the following interview, GM Swapnil Dhopade talks to Shubham Kumthekar about his upcoming book, sharing behind-the-scenes stories while also reflecting on the Petroff Defence in general. He further speaks about his experiences with the Indian Women’s team and also narrates how the idea of Chess Pathshala, his chess academy, came to fruition. He rounds up this detailed interview by taking a rapid-fire, wherein he shares the name of a certain cricketer whom he idolizes. Keep reading to know more about one of India’s finest chess coaches!
GM Swapnil Dhopade – Player, Coach, and now an Author as well! (Source: chesspathshala.in)
Shubham Kumthekar:How did the concept of the Petroff book come into being?
Swapnil Dhopade: I was a part of the Indian women’s team as a second at the 2018 Olympiad which was held in Georgia. The head coach of the team was Jacob Aagard, who was basically managing everything and was taking camps before the event. They had around three camps with Jacob before the Olympiad and I was invited as a second from the third camp onward. I was basically working on the openings with the team. I also accompanied the team to the Olympiad as an opening helper. Somehow, I felt that Jacob kind of liked the opening files which I created, and the team was also quite comfortable with the files. Overall, Jacob was satisfied and happy about the work that I did at the Olympiad.
Also, I have personally known Jacob for quite a while as I am one of his students. I attended camps at his home in Scotland. And after attending the camps, I immediately gave the best performance of my career when I finished joint third in the Isle of Man Open. It was a really nice experience, one that established a bond with Jacob. I also feel that he is fond of Indians. A lot of his students are Indians and he has a lot of connections in India. He likes working with Indian chess players a lot and he believes that we have a lot of potential. In this way, I already had some sort of personal connection with Jacob (before the Olympiad).
When you receive a prize from your coach and your friend! GM Jacob Aagard awarding GM Swapnil Dhopade a prize at one of the Commonwealth Chess Championships. (Source: chesspathshala.in)
One day, after finishing our work for the team at the Olympiad, we were discussing different issues and aspects of chess improvement, and it was just a casual discussion when I asked him how exactly was Quality Chess doing. Of course, we know that they have been publishing books regularly, and when I was a full-time player, I also referred to a lot of his books, especially the Grandmaster Repertoire series. His books have helped me a lot, particularly his Grandmaster Preparation books on Calculation, Positional Play, and Endgame Play. I was always quite fond of and liked the books published by Quality Chess. I casually asked him if there’s an opportunity for me to be a part of Quality Chess, and he was really happy when I asked about it. His immediate words were, “Yes, why not! It would be really great to have you on our team. It would be great if you could write a book for Quality Chess.” The initial idea that I had on my mind was about writing a book on Caro-Kann as I have been playing the opening since the start of my career. Also when I was working for the Indian women’s team, I was mainly working on Caro-Kann because I had good preparation in the opening. I suggested to Jacob that I could write a book on Caro-Kann. However, GM Lars Schandorff, who had written a volume on Caro-Kann in the Grandmaster Repertoire series before, was supposed to be doing so again. Considering a Caro-Kann book was already on the cards for Quality Chess, I, unfortunately, could not write a book on my favorite opening.
But then Jacob said that writing a book on Petroff would be a good idea because recently, there hadn’t really been a famous book on Petroff or a complete repertoire on Petroff from the black side, and it would be a good idea if I could do so. The Carlsen – Caruana World Championship Match 2018 also had a lot of Petroff games and they ignited a lot of interest in this opening. I agreed that it would be a great idea to write a book on the Petroff, but my only problem was that I had never played a game with the Petroff in my entire career! The subject was completely new to me. But what I had experienced at the Olympiad was that if somehow, I could get into the research mode, I could work on completely new opening variations and try to create a good file in as minimal time as possible. I realized that it could also be a good opportunity for me to learn something about the Petroff. I thought that if I invest some quality time and if I research correctly, it would be a nice idea to write on a subject which is completely new to me. So this is how we agreed on it and I started working on a Petroff repertoire.
What were the challenges in writing this book considering Petroff is not your main opening?
Indeed, there were a lot of challenges. If you write a book on an opening which you already know quite well, you would have already played hundreds and hundreds of games in that opening, making the task of writing easier. In my case, it was the Caro-Kann. So if I write something on the Caro-Kann, it would be very easy for me because of the experience I have with this opening. In that case, we already know which lines are critical and which lines we should recommend to the readers. But if you write on something completely new, you have to refer to a lot of books on the subject, do a lot of research, and also play over a lot of games and lines which are trending right now. We have to start researching from scratch, and that is a little tough as well as time-consuming.
There was another challenge. In many positions in the Petroff, the engines show an evaluation of 0.00 (chuckles). In an opening like the Sicilian, the engine may immediately point out some really bad moves as the position is so dynamic in nature. But in the Petroff, the positions are usually kind of equal and very solid after the opening. With that in mind, it was a bit of a challenge to always try and understand what the engine was saying and then suggest moves that would be comfortable to the readers. We basically have to think from a human point-of-view, from a practical point of view. Having said that, it was also quite interesting and a nice learning experience for me.
That brings me to a related question. Were there any books that you particularly found interesting while you were writing this book?
I did try to look for some books (on the Petroff), but I felt that the depth in those books wasn’t particularly great. As such, I had a brief look at some of the books but I felt that it was better to start from scratch and then take it from there. I thought that if I start from scratch, check the old games, check how Petroff developed and how its theory evolved, I will learn a lot more in the process. So practically, I didn’t put a lot of emphasis on the existing books on the Petroff and attached more importance to starting anew.
Let’s say someone is looking to learn the Petroff. In that case, who do you think are the model players to check out?
Right now I think Fabiano Caruana is the best Petroff player around, but there are also a lot of Chinese players like Yu Yangyi and Wei Yi who play the opening. Even Wang Hao plays the Petroff and he has beaten none other than Vishy Anand with it. These Chinese players have been playing Petroff quite regularly and quite successfully. They are the players to be followed alongside Caruana. Of course, Caruana plays all the openings well. He has great preparation in each and every opening, but he particularly plays Petroff quite well. And going into his World Championship match against Carlsen, Petroff was sort of the main weapon for him. To sum it up, the model Petroff players are Fabiano Caruana, Yu Yangyi, Wang Hao, and Wei Yi.
Fabiano Caruana held Magnus Carlsen to draws in Games 6 and 11 of the 2018 World Chess Championship match by using the Petroff Defence.
This reminds me of something. I was watching the broadcast of a recent online event, I forget which one exactly. At some point, one of the commentators mentioned that the way the Chinese players play the Petroff is quite different. They are not looking for some sort of equality but they are looking more for a fight. What do you think about this?
To begin with, you tend to get a very solid position in the Petroff if you know what you are doing. But there are some really interesting and fighting lines as well from the black side. There’s this mainline where White goes for long castle, and one of the challenging lines, if you want to have a real fight as black, is to castle short. So basically, the position that comes out of that variation features opposite side castling and we know that when people castle on the opposite sides, there’s always a fight. There’s always some attack and counter-attack going on. So, there are some lines which are really challenging and fighting and then there are other lines which just peter out to a draw or equality. It is some sort of a mix.
What was your approach to writing this book and who’s the target audience?
First, I myself tried to understand the opening as deeply as possible and tried to figure out which variations are challenging and what’s exactly trending. Then I picked up the lines which I felt will be relatively easier for the audience to learn, to follow, and to remember as well. Because I may give a thousand lines, but if the readers are unable to remember them comfortably, then it is basically of no use. Keeping that in mind, I tried to include lines where the reader will be able to remember stuff quite easily. But of course, there are some lines that contain a lot of dynamism. The moves are so concrete that if you forget a move, the position could become really messy. In such situations, I tried to put a lot of comments explaining the important moves that are somewhat difficult to remember and those that don’t come easily to our intuition. I tried to highlight the ideas as deeply as possible with the correct comments. If you remember the comments, then the chances of remembering the moves are also quite high. My main focus was on suggesting some good solid lines, but even in the lines which are a bit challenging and dynamic in nature, I added a lot of comments so that the readers could remember them for a long time.
Regarding the target audience, I feel it is quite broad. The reason is that I start explaining the variations, the ideas, and the plans right from the beginning of the variations. At the same time, there are also a lot of novelties in the book which can be useful even for Grandmasters. Therefore, I believe the book can help a wide range of players.
This is your first ever book, right?
Yes, this is my first book. Before this book, I had only written two articles for Modern Chess on Prophylaxis. But in the book format, this is definitely my first one.
Would we see you writing more books? If yes, which topics do you think would you like to write on?
Well, I have a lot of topics to write on! There are so many topics in the middle game, there are so many psychological aspects to chess. For example, I have written articles on my own blog on pattern recognition and time management which were later republished on Chessbase India.
Alongside psychological aspects, I could write about improvement and other practical stuff. I could also write on positional chess as I collect a lot of instructive examples on different topics on a daily basis. These are of course used in training with my students, but these examples can also find their way into a book. Apart from writing books, I also have many other plans like making video courses for my website. That’s just one of the many other things on my agenda. Let’s see!
When Sam Shankland released his first book, we had interviewed him and he had mentioned that he would like to write a second book. And later, he indeed ended up writing a second volume. I hope that you get to write your second book as you have so much to share!
Indeed, I am looking forward to it!
Moving on to something different. A few weeks back, you posted a certain picture on Instagram. You had James Clear’s bestselling book Atomic Habits next to you and we had exchanged a few comments on that picture. GM Stany had also recommended it in one of his articles for Quality Chess, and that’s how I personally ended up picking the book. That brings me to the next question: Which non-chess books do you think can chess players use for their own benefit? And in what way?
Swapnil before a late-night training session. Notice the book next to him! (From Swapnil Dhopade’s Instagram)
Well, there are a lot of books on psychology and habits. For example, the Atomic Habits book is really nice. There are a lot of self-help books that we can relate to chess regarding how one should work, how one can stay motivated, etc. But it’s important to consider how much you are able to apply from those books. It’s very exciting to order a book or to download a book on Amazon Kindle, but it’s also extremely important to be able to use all the things that you learned in the book and implement them for your own benefit. So I think instead of reading a lot of books, you can just pick one book that you like, for example, Atomic Habits, and then try to implement the things given therein and apply those to your day to day life – how one can use the lessons from the book in their chess schedule, how one can try to cultivate new habits which will help one in their chess career and training, and so on. So to begin with, I think the emphasis should be more on implementation than on ordering new books and just reading them. Because if you don’t really put all the things that you learn into action, they become wasteful.
Now let’s talk about Atomic Habits. One thing I learned from the book is that our phones are a distraction of sorts. As such, many times when working on chess, I try to keep my phone elsewhere, hopefully not in the same room or at least with the internet switched off. Of course, this is mentioned in a lot of books and a lot of articles as it helps us to reach our peak productivity by focussing as much as possible. But apart from this, the author James Clear also says that habits are usually connected to one another. For example, if you go to your room, you may end up checking your phone. Or if you’re standing in a queue and you don’t have anything to do, you automatically reach for your phone and you start checking the notifications. Regarding this, the author suggests in the book that you should try to figure out unproductive habits that you want to change, and those that are happening subconsciously. For example, someone may be addicted to playing games or just surfing online without any conscious effort. In that case, you may open your laptop for chess but instead of working on chess, you may end up surfing on the web for quite some time. In such cases, you can just switch off your Wi-Fi before opening the laptop and then work on chess.
Also, there are some players who repeatedly tend to get up from the board, and that may end up affecting their concentration when a critical moment arrives in the game. But if they sit for more time at the board and just relax, it is quite possible that they will be able to concentrate more deeply at the critical moments.
Basically, one thing leads to the other. Our habits are somehow always connected, and it is very important for us to figure out how we end up doing unproductive activities or things that we don’t really want to. This way, we can work on the habits that hinder us in our chess progress.
Let us talk about your experiences as a trainer. You worked with the Indian women’s team at the 2019 World Women’s Team Championship and earlier at the 2018 Batumi Olympiad. What was your experience like?
During the Batumi Olympiad, my job was mainly concerned with opening preparation. I had to work on the variations that players were going to play the next day and to try and make the opening files as clean as possible. A file shouldn’t be too messy, otherwise, the player may get confused. I used to add comments at important moments so that the player could understand and grasp the matter as quickly as possible and she could play it well in her game. In the process, I learned a lot about how to handle engines and which engines were stronger. But then I went to the World Women’s Team Championship, where I was the head coach of the team. Here, I learned a lot about the psychological aspects – how to exactly motivate the players, how to keep them in the best shape, how to create an environment where they could give their best in the games, what should be the schedule, etc. Summing it up, I learned different things at these two events – at the Olympiad, it was mainly about opening preparation, and at World Teams, it was mainly about the psychological part.
Swapnil with the Indian Team at the World Women’s Team Championship 2019. (Source: chesspathshala.in)
When you worked at these events, what did you make of certain teams that keep winning the titles time and again? For example, you have the Chinese and Georgian teams in women’s events. What do you think is special about such teams?
I feel that their training setup is really interesting, especially in the case of the Chinese teams. They have a dedicated place to train for the national team, a dedicated place where the top players in the country can assemble and train before a tournament. Such a dedicated setup is very essential in my opinion. Whenever there is some tournament coming up and the players want to train intensively and stay completely focused, then it’s better to have a setup like this on a national level. That could prove to be really great.
The Indian team has a lot of potential and with proper training, even we can finish in the top three places or become champions. So, potential-wise, I don’t think there is any difference but it’s more about how you train. Also, I feel that the Chinese players mainly train in groups. This is something that the Indian players need to cultivate. I always tell my students to work in groups by making a group of three or four players of the same strength, for example, and then work on a particular topic or a particular variation. This is something, that I feel, is absent in the Indian chess circles. Now, the top players are moving towards working together, of course. But I think this that needs to be encouraged even more along with having a dedicated center for the top players to work regularly. Such things are quite important, and I feel this is what makes the Chinese team so strong.
Let us talk about your chess academy – Chess Pathshala. How did this project come into being and what are the services that you offer as a trainer?
For the past four years or so, I have been mainly teaching one-on-one. I try to take on board only selected students. Of course, it also depends on how much time I have on my hand. My first student was Raunak Sadhwani, who went on to become a Grandmaster very quickly. And when your first student becomes a GM so quickly, it of course encourages you to keep on coaching and help students achieve their title. As such, I have worked with a lot of students over the past four years. But then, I also used to get a lot of emails from players, let’s say in the range of 1000 to 2000. I did not have much time remaining for these players and I was unable to train them. It was practically impossible to work with each and every player who wanted guidance from me. That is how I arrived at this thought that maybe, I should create a team of coaches, I should train these coaches, I should explain to them how exactly they should go about teaching students, and that I should also create material for the coaching sessions. I feel there are two really important things when it comes to coaching. One thing is the coach himself, of course, and the second thing is the material that he uses to teach the students. If the material is not so good then the benefit may not be so great. Hence, I selected a few coaches and I trained them. I explained to them how exactly to teach different aspects of chess – positional, endgame, etc and also psychological aspects like how to deal with the students, how to motivate them, etc. I also personally made the material that the coaches will use to teach the students in the online sessions. That way, the two most important things in coaching were taken care of. And by training this team of coaches, I basically aimed at helping the players below the 2000 level, whom I cannot personally attend. This was the main reason behind founding the Chess Pathshaala Online Academy. But then, I have also started expanding offline. For example, I have established an academy in Amravati, my home city, and also in two cities nearby namely Yavatmal and Vani. The latter is a very small rural place.
GM Raunak Sadhwani’s testimonial from the Chess Pathshala website.
What are your future plans going ahead? Would you be playing more, would you be more into coaching, do you plan to do some other things in chess…
I am almost gravitating towards full-time coaching as I enjoy it a lot. When I started coaching, I used to do it in a 50-50 manner. I used to focus on my own practice but I also used to train Raunak. But then, Raunak started doing quite well and he became a GM. On a personal level, I enjoyed the process of training him. I felt that coaching is something I really enjoy and I love helping students achieve their dreams. As a result, I am more into full-time coaching right now. Of course, I will be playing tournaments when I feel like playing and when I feel that I am a bit rusty. But the focus will definitely be on full-time coaching.
A lot of my focus is also on creating online video courses and also on developing my offline academy, on training my students in Amravati. But for the moment, the latter has taken a backseat due to the Corona situation. However, I am working on the online aspects and my video courses will be released very soon on my website. I will be making courses on different subjects, for instance on Openings, where my first course will be on the Caro-Kann! (chuckles) Of course, other important topics like Endgames, Tactics, Positional Play, etc will also be covered.
What is your message to chess improvers?
I feel a lot of budding talents right now are always trying to keep two options in their career. For instance, if chess fails, then they plan to switch to academics or something else in their life. In this respect, I feel it’s really important that they focus all their energy on one thing for a few years rather than having two options. Because when you have two options open, there is a high probability that you will switch on to something else. But if you deeply believe that you enjoy chess, then make sure that you work 100 percent on it. That will increase your probability of making a successful career in chess.
Blitzkrieg
If you were not a chess player, then what would you be?
Maybe a saint! I read a lot of spiritual books and I am really drawn to spirituality.
One chess book and one non-chess book that you recommend….
Atomic Habits in the non-chess category. For chess, I would say (pauses to think) Grandmaster Preparation – Calculation by Jacob Aagard.
Half an hour before a game you are generally found doing…
Meditating.
Who is your non-chess role model?
I have a lot of sports heroes. But if I had to go with one, I would go with MS Dhoni. There are a lot of qualities in him which I really admire but on the top of the list is the way he handles situations calmly.
The man himself Antonio Radic, popularly known as Agadmator! (Source: Agadmator’s Instagram)
He is the most followed Chess YouTuber around. He is a household name in the chess world and has published more than 2000 videos so far. But most importantly, he has kindled a love for chess in the hearts of the people by sharing his own love for the game and taking his viewers over an amazing number of exciting chess games. He is none other than Antonio Radic, popularly known as Agadmator!
In the interview that follows, Agadmator reveals the origins of his channel and underlines his approach to it. Along the way, he also guides budding YouTubers on how to make the best of their own YouTube channel. To conclude, Agadmator talks about fan encounters and discusses his plans going forward, not just for his channel but also on a personal level. Keep reading to know more about the man who revolutionized Chess on YouTube!
Shubham Kumthekar: How did you get acquainted with chess and how did your Youtube channel come into being?
Antonio Radic: My grandfather Anto Krnjic was a FIDE Master. He taught me chess when I was four or maybe five years old. But then, I got really bored with it and I didn’t play until I was about 16. At some point, I just started playing local guys in pubs and bars and in school, and I really took up chess for around a year before I went to college. I took all the books that my grandfather had and went through them. I studied some openings, some endgames, some general principles. And then, I stopped learning about chess for a very long time. I still enjoyed playing it but it wasn’t until maybe 2016 that I really started uploading videos on my channel. Well, everything just happened from that point on!
In the chess world, ratings and titles are heavily valued. What challenges did you face in this respect when you were building up your channel?
When people first started watching my channel, some of them – but not all – were like, “I am not going to watch this guy… he is rated like 1900.” So, it would make more sense for them to watch videos from someone who was higher rated. But it didn’t bother me all that much and other than this, I did not really face any other challenges.
When you started making videos, did you have a certain kind of audience in mind?
No, I just wanted to show, for example, Bobby Fischer’s Game of the Century. I really enjoyed the game and I wanted other people who may not have seen it to enjoy it in a way that I saw it – the way I perceived the game, how I thought about it, and which moment of the game did I think was the most important. That is what I really tried to highlight for my audience. I did not have it in mind that these videos are for people rated 1600 to maybe 2000. It was more like: whoever finds themselves on my video, they are welcome to check it out!
Here’s a small introduction to Agadmator’s Chess Channel. Check out his video on the ‘Game of the Century’ played by the great Bobby Fischer himself!
You mention in one of the previous interviews with Chessbase India that you used to work with your father and then you switched over full time to making videos. How tough was it to make the decision of turning into a full-time YouTuber and that too in a niche field like chess?
It wasn’t all that difficult. When I was still shooting weddings and editing wedding videos, I didn’t upload all that much. Only later on when I got a job as a graphical designer here in a local company that I started doing more YouTube. When I used to come back from work, it used to be around 3 or 5 PM depending on the day. I would also record two videos on those days and this would pretty much consume my entire day. But when my YouTube revenue started exceeding what I made on my day job, it wasn’t really a tough decision to switch to YouTube.
At this point, I had around 25,000 subscribers. Yes, it was still a little bit risky to switch, but I thought that I better just do it!
One thing that really makes me curious is that sometimes, I see you upload a video within minutes of the end of the actual live game. How do you manage to do it? It fascinates me!
If it’s like a rapid game that lasts for maybe 35 – 40 minutes, more often than not I watch the game live, and then, if I am interested in something, I also analyze it while watching it live. So basically, by the time it ends I pretty much know what happened in the game, and then I just record it. I don’t know why people find it so interesting! It’s like the game finished, I was watching it for an hour or so, and I just make a shorter version of it.
One reason why I personally find that interesting is because you are used to seeing people edit their videos…
I never edit my videos. If I had started making YouTube videos without doing some other job, then maybe I would. But this way, I simply did not have time to edit videos. I barely had enough time to record them!
You mentioned in one of the earlier interviews that you try and put out at least one video a day. You also mention that regularity is the key to success on YouTube. But let us say you’re traveling somewhere or you go on a vacation. How do you manage your channel in such cases?
Well, I don’t travel that much (chuckles) and when I do, I either prepare for it or I take my laptop with me. In that case, I often record the videos when I am on the seaside, or on my way to Germany. Even when I was in London, I recorded videos there. So it’s not all that different. It’s surely easier at home when you have your standard setup and your big screens and everything, but otherwise, you make do.
I can relate to this in many ways. Sometimes work just follows us, especially in the field of Chess, doesn’t it!
Yeah, especially if you are in the news business – I wouldn’t really say that I am in the news business but I do sort of deliver news to people on a daily basis. So if something really spectacular happens, I would like to be amongst the firsts to mention that. That isn’t always a priority. But if I can manage it, then I try and do so.
Agadmator’s setup when he was in London for the World Championship match between Carlsen and Caruana. (Source: Agadmator’s Instagram)
When you are a prolific YouTuber and when people really love your videos, it is clear that you’re doing something right. In your case, what is it that you think you’re doing right in terms of making the videos? What is your approach and what is your YouTube strategy in general?
Well, that’s one of the most common questions I get, but there’s no easy way to answer that. I think it’s a mixture of everything. My videos are not too long and they’re not too short either. They stretch from maybe 10 minutes to sometimes even up to 20 minutes. For a chess video, I think that’s appropriate. I like to think that people who enjoy chess have at least a little bit of a longer attention span!
I really enjoy making videos. I think people also pick up on the fact that I don’t like to waste people’s time. I don’t have sponsors who I promote. I don’t have the mid-roll ads in any of my videos. And I think those are some of the things that people might enjoy on my channel. It may also have something to do with the choice of games. Overall, it would be interesting to hear about this for me. Maybe I will make a poll or something so that whenever I get that question again, I am ready for it!
People are always curious about what Agadmator means, and you have often emphasized that you will reveal it when you hit 1 million subscribers. Has that always been a backstory for you, or did it just catch up in some way?
Well, I actually did reveal it in my first-ever stream, and the video is still public! But I have about 2000 videos on my channel, so finding the video is not an easy task. But after some time, people just started asking me and then I said, “Nah, I am not gonna reveal it just yet!”
Considering our chess world is pretty large and you have more than 650,000 subscribers now, do you ever get recognized at places or have you ever had any fan encounters as such?
In my home town, people pretty much know who I am. They even knew me before I started doing YouTube since it is a very small town. But when I go to Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, or maybe some other places, more often than not people do recognize me. There is a funny story when I was in London for the World Chess Championship match between Carlsen and Caruana. I had some time to kill so I was sightseeing in the center of London. I went to listen to this guy play violin on the street and I was going to drop him a few Euros. Over there, I encountered Henry and Kevin Tran and I didn’t know who they were. But they said, “Hey, you are Agadmator! Can we take a photo with you?” I was like, “Yeah sure.” In the end, it turned out that they are a comedy channel from France and are a much bigger channel than mine!
But again, I don’t travel that much. If I traveled more, I am pretty sure I would meet more people. But even like this, I do get recognized more often than not.
Considering the current COVID times have been great for creating new content, how have things changed for you during this particular period of time?
Well, not that much. But what I think has happened is that a lot more people who were never interested in chess have decided to take up chess. When you are at home and you don’t really have all that much to do and you don’t have all that many hobbies, chess seems like an ideal thing to start. But other than that, it did not affect me in creating content in any negative way.
What is your piece of advice to budding YouTubers, streamers, or anyone related to this field?
What I can definitely say is that you should be consistent and you should make content that you enjoy yourself. Sometimes, of course, you want to make content that attracts the most viewers. But if you are doing that for too long and if you don’t make content which you enjoy yourself, you’re going to be unable to do that for very long. You will either get bored with it, or you will be annoyed by it. Therefore, you have to be true to yourself, you have to be consistent, and you have to try and make the content as high quality as possible. I don’t mean that you need an 8k camera or something like that, but a decent microphone, for example, goes a long way in helping your case.
One of the things that I personally always try and do is to not waste the time of my subscribers. My approach is: here’s the content and whether you like it or not, I will not be wasting your time. Of course, you can throw in a few jokes in between. Some important segments of content are always welcome. But maybe spending five minutes on nothing related to the actual content will lead to people disliking you. Unless that’s what you enjoy, then you should also be true to yourself and do that. There will always be people who enjoy watching you for that!
I don’t think you can really say, “Okay, I’m now gonna make a YouTube channel and I am gonna grow really large.” It all depends on what makes you happy, what you enjoy making, and whether or not a lot of people enjoy what you personally enjoy. If you fake that you enjoy something and then make content on it, people will pick up on that very quickly.
Going forward, what are your plans – not only for the channel but also for your own self?
For the moment I am pretty busy with the channel and with the preparation for my podcasts. Also, we are about to launch our chess manga, the first chapter of which should be out in June. So when all of that settles and when we are really getting it going, then I will start looking into some other things, maybe even things that have nothing to do with chess. But I might also start improving my own chess, something I have wanted to do for a while, and maybe even play a few open tournaments just for fun. And who knows, maybe I will even try and get a title!
Agadmator recently released his first-ever podcast wherein Super GM Maxime Vachier-Lagrave was his first guest
Blitzkrieg
Favorite YouTube channels – one chess and one non-chess…
For chess, it’s a tough one. I will go with Jozarov’s Chess Channel. For non-chess, it has been a while since I have seen anything. But if I had to name one, I would say it’s 331 ERock. He makes these metal covers for famous songs.
Three chess players of all time whom you would love to invite for dinner…
I would go with Capablanca, Tal and Spassky. I would love to play with Nezhmetdinov, but for dinner, I will be sticking with these three!
When you are not doing something related to chess, you are generally found doing…
Hanging out with Jelena, my girlfriend. We have been together for a very long time now and we are actually planning a house and are in the process of building a house. So that’s pretty time-consuming. But other than that, I watch some movies and TV shows, read a book here and there, play some video games, take Medo (Ed. – Agadmator’s famous dog!) for a walk, visit the family and so on.
Your favourite quote or your motto in life…
I am sure there are a handful of such quotes. But if I had to choose one, it would probably be ‘live and let live’. It is one of my favorites.
Over the years, Anish Giri has thoroughly established himself as an elite chess player. At the age of 25, he has already been a two-time candidate to the world title and is currently ranked #10 in the world. Alongside this, he is known as a witty and vocal individual and is understandably quite popular among chess fans. Recently, Shubham Kumthekar caught up with him for a brief interview, attempting to know his thoughts on the current situation of the chess world. They also ventured into some lesser-known aspects of being a top chess player and went on to discuss his prominence on social media. These discussions were followed by our trademark blitzkrieg segment, wherein Anish revealed his favourite among the current crop of players! Read on to know more!
Shubham Kumthekar: The Candidates tournament was stopped, we had a lull, and then a boom followed in online chess. How do you find the current situation of the chess world during the pandemic? Are you enjoying the online revolution?
Anish Giri: It seems odd to me to put the words pandemic and enjoying into the same sentence, but certainly, professional chess players are very fortunate in that we are able to continue pursuing our work and passion despite all the restrictions that are in place due to this unfortunate situation. There are a lot of opportunities to enjoy chess online and connect to the fans of the game, all this while staying at home! The efforts of chess platforms and organizations such as Magnus’s company – Chess24, FIDE, Chess.com, Lichess and many others are to thank for that.
What do you make of the idea of more events going online once things normalize?
There has already been a clear growth in online chess before the Covid-19 situation left us with no choice. For example, the Speed Chess Championship and the Pro Chess League on Chess.com and the Banter Blitz Cup on Chess24 have attracted quite some star players and garnered the attention of the chess fans. This trend is natural and is likely to continue, but it would also be good to get back the real-life social aspect and the wooden chess pieces as well!
How do you think should chess players, organizers, and playing servers adapt during the current situation?
I am very happy to see that the chess platforms and organizations are extremely dynamic and open-minded right now. I also saw most of my colleagues adapt one way or the other, and although everyone has to find his way, be it playing online, online coaching, streaming or content producing, I am sure there are possibilities for most of us to make good use of our free time. That said, with things reopening here and there, I would guess most people expect this situation to be rather temporary and the normal chess life will resume in due time.
What do you personally prefer – online chess or over-the-board chess?
There are obvious plusses and minuses to both. Over-the-board is definitely taken more seriously by the professionals. Making a move online has less of a feeling of responsibility to it, a bit like doing online shopping. However, staring at the screen is probably less pleasant than looking at the wooden chess set. Although at tournaments one is prone to missing his family, it is easier to get into a more competitive mode at these events with full focus.
Coming to more personal topics, I have always enjoyed your sense of humor! What can you tell us about it? Does it come naturally to you?
Come naturally? No, my humor is a lot of hard work and dedication. (Editor: Folks, that’s Anish for you!)
Just one of the many instances where Anish’s humor shines through! This was his reaction after his win over Kirill Alekseenko in Round 6 of the FIDE Candidates Tournament 2020. (Original Anish’s photo credits: FIDE)
You are also super active on social media platforms… How do you manage to dabble regularly on social media and still stay focused on chess?
I have absolutely no illusions that top chess players, or in fact any top professionals, are just like other people and they need their relaxing moments. Social media is my way of doing that. I enjoy engaging with my colleagues and chess fans and sharing my passion for the game. At the same time, I am also happy to hear that it helps contribute to bringing our game to more people. I believe it is great that now a chess fan not only has some good moves and games to enjoy but also gets some chess action via social media. Sometimes in the pursuit of entertainment and humor, I may appear to be flirting with the red line, but believe me it is all in good spirits and so far, I feel I have never crossed the line!
What does a normal day in the life of Anish Giri look like?
I am not sure how to define normal – obviously my days at a tournament, at a training session or at home are very different. But any day includes a lot of chess. Fresh air is also essential!
In terms of working on chess, what does a Super GM generally work on apart from his openings?
Most top players indeed work on the openings, although it is not an entirely correct way of phrasing it. In fact, it is work on the middlegames and endgames that arise from openings relevant to your repertoire. At this level, all players are aware of the first ten moves and the analysis goes far into the middlegame and sometimes endgames. Besides that, many enjoy playing online, nowadays of course more than before. But even earlier, you had the online diehards who would spend day and night playing blitz and bullet games. Next to that, I and most of my colleagues I know enjoy solving a good study and of course following other tournaments.
In general, how easy or tough is it to manage a family life alongside an active chess career?
I wouldn’t say I ‘manage’ a family, that’s probably a good way to describe what my wife does. I am very happy to spend time with my wife and my son, that is one positive thing that the stay-home situation brought us. That said, I do spend an enormous amount of time on chess and that is only possible with full support from my family.
A picture posted by Anish on Instagram with his son Daniel and his wife International Master Sopiko Guramishvili
Blitzkrieg
Your favourite currently active chess player…
Magnus Carlsen!
First tourist destination you would visit post the pandemic…
Wijk aan Zee
A non-chess personality who inspires you…
My parents
A quote that you live by…
“If you are facing in the right direction, all you need to do is to keep on walking.”
The one and only GM Daniel King. (Captured by Lennart Ootes)
Grandmaster Daniel King is an incredibly famous figure in chess circles. A commentator, presenter, author, and coach – he dons a number of hats and excels with each of them. Recently, he wrote the book titled ‘Sultan Khan: The Indian Servant Who Became Chess Champion of the British Empire’. He also released a Powerplay DVD on the King’s Gambit only a week ago. There couldn’t have been a better time to reach out to Daniel for an interview, and he promptly agreed despite his thoroughly hectic work schedule. In the following interview, he talks to Shubham Kumthekar about his book on the legendary Mir Sultan Khan, shares stories surrounding the great man, and discusses his contribution to the game of chess. Daniel further explores his own love for the King’s Gambit and reviews the romantic opening’s current state. Finally, he talks about what it is like to be Daniel King to wrap up a highly detailed interview!
Shubham Kumthekar: How did the idea of this book come together?
Daniel King: I always knew about Sultan Khan as I have played a bit in the British Championships, and I know something about the British Championships! Somehow, he was this mysterious figure and I didn’t know his story very well. But then a theatre director, who was interested in his story, approached me. He asked me to do some research on his behalf and I began researching. The more I looked into it, the more interesting the story became. With many stops and starts, I ended up gathering all this research, all this material. For me, it was just a hobby. I was just collecting little bits of information. I would be going up to the British Library and looking up the newspapers from the 1920s and 1930s. At some point, I realized I had collected all this information and I thought to myself – should I leave this or should I organize the material and do something with it? That’s when I decided okay, let me organize the material and turn it into a book!
Sultan Khan – The Indian Servant Who Became Chess Champion of the British Empire
But the thing is, I have a very full working life. As a result, it took me years to write this. Sometimes I wouldn’t touch the material for like 6 months and then I would have a week where I could devote myself to it. Then again, I would be traveling somewhere, commentating somewhere, and it would get difficult to find the time. Eventually, I got there in the end. The more I looked into it, the more intriguing it became. The political story behind it became more interesting. Also, I discovered more about Sultan Khan as a person – he comes across as a very sympathetic person, and I didn’t want to spend my time with a person I didn’t like! I feel like I got to know him over these years!
What are the other forays into chess history that you make as part of this book?
The chess scene at that time in Europe and in England was fascinating. Of course, you had all these great figures like Alekhine and Capablanca (at the global level). But even on the English Chess scene, you had all these incredible characters who were talented in their own right… Like Yates, Thomas, Winter, Alexander. It was very interesting looking at their lives as well and how Sultan Khan interacted with them. I was just intrigued by the whole project, and I would like to continue researching, to be honest. I enjoyed it so much!
I got a lot of information (about the Indian chess scenario) from this book called the Indian Chess History written by Manuel Aaron and Vijay Pandit. I got a lot of biographical details of the Indian players from that book, but also from other books and newspapers. And again, these were remarkable characters. VK Khadilkar, of course, was the first Indian to play in the British Championship in 1924. So he was a trailblazer for Sultan Khan, which I found very interesting. Khadilkar didn’t do badly – he scored a little under 50%. He lost his first 4 games and I am guessing that maybe he had trouble with the food, maybe the climate, maybe the travel. But after those first 4 games, he rallied and actually played some very nice games as I show in the book. He was sponsored by some of the Indian princes to come to Britain – his expenses were paid by some of the Maharajas. I found it incredible. In some ways, it’s similar to the story of Sultan Khan, who wouldn’t have come to England if it wasn’t for Colonel Nawab Sir Umar Hayat Khan. All in all, I was intrigued by the whole story.
Daniel at his work desk. See carefully, you can spot the book ‘Indian Chess History’ behind him!
Writing this kind of book is hardly a piece of cake. It has its own set of challenges. You have to be politically and historically correct in every sense of the business that you are going about. What kind of challenges did you face?
Exactly the ones you have mentioned. Of course, historical accuracy is of utmost importance. As such, I was extremely careful to quote my sources. However, I am also acutely aware of the history of our countries. I wanted to put something that I felt was right and proper. If you see in the book, I detail the kind of opinions that were prevalent at the time in London, in the United Kingdom, and also in India, and try to balance them. It’s actually quite a nuanced picture because in the United Kingdom, you had a large section of the population who accepted the Empire. For them, the Empire was normal and India was part of the Empire. They didn’t see a problem. On the other hand, there was also a very large section of the society that was against the Empire. So for instance, when Mahatma Gandhi came over for the India Roundtable Conference in 1931, which I talk about in the book, he was enormously popular with a large section of the population here. At that time in the 1930s, there was a very strong peace movement in the country. And naturally, he was very popular with them and with lots of church people as well. He went off to the north of England where there were strikers for example, in the cotton mills. He was extremely popular even there and was surrounded by crowds of people. Even for my father, Gandhi was always a hero. This is true for many intellectuals. Such stories aren’t very well known. But of course, there was another huge part of the population, which thought he was a troublemaker. And they didn’t understand the independence movement at all. And I talk about this kind of things in the book, because I want to put the historical background in perspective.
Sultan Khan wasn’t political. However, his patron – or we can say his master – Sir Umar was. He was an advisor to the British government and fought with the British Army. There was also a section of the Indian population that was loyal to the British. This is also a part of the story. Overall, it’s a very nuanced picture, and I am very aware that it’s quite possible to put a foot very badly wrong here. However, including the historical background is also important because that is why Sir Umar came to London. He was on his political mission.
I was very very careful with checking dates – dates for games and other activities like simultaneous displays and official events that Sir Umar went to. I checked very carefully with different newspapers to make sure I got them right. A lot of the dates I found on ChessBase for the games weren’t correct. So it was like a jigsaw puzzle – I had to put it all together.
The cover of Daniel King’s groundbreaking book on Mir Sultan Khan. It has been published by New in Chess.
Was there an attempt to reach Sultan Khan’s family?
I didn’t. Of course, I really hope they like the book because I want to pay tribute to Sultan Khan as a great player. One of the reasons that I didn’t reach out to his family was that I had done all this research and somehow, I didn’t want the word to get out about it. I wanted to make sure that the book sort of arrived intact. Also, most of my research was done about his time in Europe. As such, all the sources that I required, I could look them up here (in UK).
Of course, there are more details to be found about his early life in Punjab and his life after going back to India, and I would be very interested to learn more. I could have kept researching forever. And in the end, I realized I needed a cut-off point because it was taking over my life.
Yeah, it’s already a reasonably thick book at 372 pages…
Yeah, and I already cut it down! I’m serious. I thought that I had to draw a line somewhere.
I agree. When you talk about a book, it’s imperative we talk about its target audience. Are we looking at this book as a historical account, or can it also be used by people for the betterment of their chess?
I actually think that both those things are true. I mean, if you want to study some of Sultan Khan’s games, I think they’re very valuable. He was brilliant at the endgame. He played some fine strategic middlegames. His openings may have been erratic and poor, some of them really poor. But sometimes, he discovered things that were really pretty good and groundbreaking! For example, he played 4.a3 in his famous game against Capablanca. This later became popular as the Petrosian variation against the Queen’s Indian! I find this really interesting, this is one of his opening experiments that was very successful. It went on to become a main-line of the Queen’s Indian. You had arguably one of the greatest players in the history of the game – Garry Kasparov – playing a3. That is when you realize that Sultan Khan understood something about the game. In the 1920s, only a handful of players played 4.a3. But I don’t think Sultan Khan would have been copying them. He wasn’t a researcher like this. And so when he played it, I am sure that he was basically improvising. I find it pretty fascinating that sometimes, he really did hit upon something that was pretty good.
Sultan Khan, Mir 1-0 Capablanca, Jose Raul
Hastings 3031, 1930.??.??
Sultan Khan – Endgame Expert
So, of course, we can learn from him. Another thing that we can learn from him is his tenacity. He could turn games around. He was extremely hard working at the board. And it shows that focus and concentration during the game are so important. Sometimes you have to check-in and just bury yourself. Some players can do it better than others and Sultan Khan was brilliant at it.
Sultan Khan was not as well studied at chess as his contemporaries. He was a natural player. Did this actually make him more modern in some sense than his contemporaries?
That’s really interesting! Because in a sense, he was being a pioneer, he was improvising a lot of his openings, he made some interesting discoveries. There’s one particular game where his play is quite incredible. He plays a kind of hedgehog setup with Black. It came from a Nimzo Indian and he ended up playing f5, g5-g4, h5-h4-h3. He had this pawn chain d7, e6, f5, g4, h3 in a middle game when he was attacking the White King on g1. This is really hypermodern. I cannot imagine any English players (of those times) playing in this fashion! It was a wild game and the advantage swung back and forth. But Khan won in the end. However it’s the style of it – I just thought, wow, this is really something special. So I think you have made an interesting point. I have never put it like that myself that in some way he was kind of ahead of his time. I think I may have done something a little bit like that. But I didn’t say that he was kind of a modern player. He was a different player. And he was experimenting. And I suppose that’s the way that chess strategy develops.
He actually had a 2-0 record against Capablanca, didn’t he….
Well, you can’t really count a simultaneous game! But the story of that simul is quite extraordinary. I find it incredible that he played in this simul. I think the people didn’t know how strong he was. Also, I think he didn’t know how strong he was! He had just arrived. He hadn’t really faced any Western opposition. He had been in the country for only two days. No one knew anything about him!
Because of his background and the kind of player he was – not very strong in the openings, very natural, not so known in Europe. Do you think he was underestimated by some people on the scene? And did that play a role at times?
I don’t think they underestimated him. I think they appreciated his strength. And of course, he did develop as a player. I think we shouldn’t forget that. His openings did get much better. Even at the end of his career, he had disasters. But on the whole, his openings got much, much better. In some of the games that I show in the book, he was playing quite an orthodox strategy on the black side of the Spanish – really good. Also, he always played the Queen’s Gambit Declined with black and won some really nice games. That was always part of his repertoire. His repertoire definitely expanded – with white he definitely developed. When he first came to London, he was playing 1.e4 a lot and he was really shaky. He didn’t play well against the Sicilian. He looked like he had never really encountered the Sicilian before. But after about a year and a half, he switched to playing 1.d4, and he was much, much better with 1.d4 That was a really positive move to switch mainly to 1.d4. He still played 1.e4 occasionally, but with d4, he was much more solid. I think it suited his style far better. But even there, he experimented. Often he would play 1.d4 and then he wouldn’t play 2.c4, and instead played Nf3, g3, and Bg2. He loved the fianchetto.
And the stonewall sometimes…
Yes, and the Stonewall! Again, it’s a system. He liked systems – not variations but systems.
Sultan Khan #3 – The Fearless Attacker
So he used to play this system with fianchetto and he would allow his opponent to play c5 and then he would just play c3. It’s like a reverse Grunfeld. And he managed okay, mixed as ever. He liked to play with black. Hence, he may have thought: I might as well play this way with white!
Coming back to your point about Sultan Khan being quite a modern player… there’s a certain player who I saw play this exact system – Carlsen himself against Caruana! If you have a look at that game, Carlsen basically did exactly what Sultan Khan used to do. Carlsen played 1.d4, then fianchettoed on g2, c3 and when Fabi played c5, Carlsen took on c5.
Carlsen, Magnus (2881) 1-0 Caruana, Fabiano (2783)
Vugar Gashimov Mem 2014, 2014.04.30
In relation to Sultan Khan, you also talk about the old Indian variant of Chess in your book. Do you think the old Indian Chess, like Chess960, could be a possible alternative to normal Chess?
That’s very true! Maybe not the rules at the end of the game, but you could start with pawns having just one step like the old middle-eastern game. This is like Kramnik’s variant – no Castling. In fact, Kramnik’s variant in some ways is closer to the original Indian game.
(Based on Daniel King’s book on Sultan Khan)
The other new thing that you recently released is the Powerplay 27 – King’s Gambit DVD for Chessbase. How and when did you first get acquainted with the King’s Gambit?
There is this book called the Game of Chess. This is the first chess book that I ever read – it belonged to my father. I still have it. It is a little bit tatty and there is a sticking tape on it. I’m afraid to open it as it may fall apart!
In that book, Golombek shows you how the pieces move. He also gives some historical games. And the first game there is the Immortal Game – Anderssen vs Kieseritzky. When you see such a game, it makes a big impression on you. You think this is a great opening! So as a teenager, I used to play the King’s Gambit. I loved it and it was good fun. When I got to about 18 it was perhaps time to grow up a little! I played the Spanish which I have always loved. But the King’s Gambit – for many years I played it and had great fun with it. It is kind of in my blood. As such, it was interesting to go back and look at all these old lines and see what is good and what works well. I reviewed a lot of these variations for the first time in decades. And I found it incredibly interesting. There are things like the Fischer’s Variation (1.e4 e5, 2.f4 exf4, 3.Nf3 d6) which, he claimed was the bust of the King’s Gambit in his famous article in 1963. However, it is probably one of the variations which gives white the most chances! Acknowledged King’s Gambit experts like Nigel Short and Joe Gallagher say that this is one of the variations where they feel the most confident with White. And rightly so. It gives White very interesting chances. You may check out the game Short against Akopian – beautiful game! But even in variations which are supposed to be fine for black, the problem for Black is that the opening is so complex and it is incredibly easy to go wrong. That’s why players like Adhiban can get away with it. He still plays it now and again. You have Ponomariov playing it. You can check out the game Ponomariov against Dominguez – blows him away!
Short, Nigel D (2690) 1-0 Akopian, Vladimir (2655)
Madrid Magistral 6th, 1997.05.26
What kind of modern philosophy do you advocate for the King’s Gambit? Because the King’s Gambit in the days of Anderssen and the King’s Gambit today are completely different things, aren’t they?
I thought it was interesting to look at the opening with kind of modern eyes instead of my eyes when I was a teenager – back then they were romantic eyes! I think it’s about the initiative. If you are a bean counter, then it is probably not the opening for you. But if you want to create chaos and a complex position and show your imagination and have a lot of fun, then the King’s Gambit is your opening!
Also, people say, “Oh, the computer shows this line as better for black!” But once you get there, when you come to the board, you don’t play as a computer. You play as a human. And there is so much jeopardy in this opening that it is extremely difficult for Black to play. There are so many opportunities for White to create real chaos.
Very true. Black is quite often out of his territory, going away from the usual e4-e5 tabiyas...
I think it’s a really good point. I think one thing that you should take care of is which opponents you play the King’s Gambit against. Quite a lot of 1.e4 e5 players have a certain expectation of how the game will go. And they are obviously comfortable with playing these kinds of strategic games with a slightly symmetrical pawn structure. Then suddenly, they’re faced with the King’s Gambit, and this is not what they anticipated they would be doing for the afternoon! Looking at it they go, oh my goodness! It is also the kind of opening wherein your choices on the first few moves are critical. If you’re someone who is used to playing the Berlin with black, you are used to playing the first 20 moves in an endgame where you can make a slight inaccuracy and it doesn’t matter. In the King’s Gambit, if you make a slight inaccuracy, you can get checkmated! And this is a very different kind of story. It’s quite difficult for some players to adjust to this kind of chess.
Coming to something more personal. I am not the kind of person who watches chess videos much. But the only ones I truly enjoy are the ones on your channel. I am hardly kidding! What is it that you do in your videos or presentations that makes you different to other people?
You would have to ask others about that! Honestly, I have no idea. I just present as I do, and I suppose I have a lot of experience presenting on TV. Not just videos but you know working for the BBC, working for ESPN, stations in Germany, in the Middle East. I even found myself on Doordarshan! (Ed. – India’s national TV channel) Therefore, I just have a lot of experience staring into a camera and being able to present. Maybe this makes a difference. But honestly, if you ask me what am I doing differently, I have no idea because that’s just what I do. This is me staring into a camera!
Also, I am a journalist. I am used to wearing lots of different hats. I’m a coach. I’m an author. I’m a broadcaster, and I’m a journalist too. As such, I am used to writing a story. So when I do a video, I present a story. It is part of being a journalist.
The amount of work that you do is insane. I can simply sense it by looking at the number of videos on your YouTube channel and not even taking into account your videos for Chessbase and other work. What drives you, how do you keep going?
I am interested in the game, really interested! Yes, sometimes it’s nice to have a break – I like to spend time with my family. But it’s okay. I enjoy working. I think it’s as simple as that. I believe working gives you a purpose in life. Also, the variety is interesting.
One final question: How do you think is the chess scene going to change after this pandemic?
In many ways, the world of chess has pretty much gone in this (online) direction. I think the pandemic is kind of accelerating this trend, which has been taking place for years. I am not going to say ‘business as usual’. But yes, it’s accelerating the trend.
Can you replicate these big tournaments when people play remotely? That’s difficult, but Magnus seems to be achieving that at the moment. I think the problem comes when you’re trying to hold larger tournaments with prize money. The temptation to cheat… You can have controls, you can have people using webcams. But I think if someone is determined to cheat, frankly, it’s difficult to stop. But I notice, at the moment, there’s the Sunway Sitges tournament in progress. That’s a classical tournament’s online with hundreds of players. And I think that’s a fantastic initiative. Now, I don’t know the details. I don’t think there’s prize money. But they have organized it extremely well from the looks of it. Maybe the trend will be to play tournaments for honor – that would be nice. That way, it becomes a pastime and not a profession. There are lots of possibilities to make a living online with the prevalent situation through journalism and broadcasting.
So yes, it will be more difficult to hold tournaments with a lot of prize money. But maybe more of the top tournaments will go online because I don’t think the top players are going to cheat. I don’t think that’s going to happen. They have too much at stake. But at lower levels, I think it is a danger. Even in real over-the-board tournaments, there are still sadly cases of cheating. If you go online, of course people are going to cheat. I don’t think you can prevent it. And that’s why, I think, to play without prize money is not a bad thing. In the end, we are in it because we like playing chess!
Winning the US Championship ahead of Caruana, Nakamura and Wesley So is a fantastic achievement in itself. But when this feat is followed by a dominant triumph at the Capablanca Memorial and a crucial victory at the American Continental within a space of two months, any number of adjectives fall short of describing it! Such has been the performance of Samuel Shankland, who has gone through these tournaments undefeated and has boosted his rating from 2671 to a career-best 2727, which makes him number 27 in the world.
We caught up with Sam post his wonderful run. In this interview, the American GM sheds light on each of his three victories, while also providing an insight into his recently released book and his association with Jacob Aagard. Finally, he imparts a crucial lesson in goal-setting that applies not just to chess but to all walks of life.
The man who has stormed the chess world: Samuel Shankland (Picture: Lennart Ootes/Saint Louis Chess Club)
Shubham Kumthekar: The last couple of months have been outstanding for you. What are your general feelings on winning three strong tournaments (US Championship, Capablanca Memorial, and American Continental) on the trot?
Samuel Shankland: Obviously, I am thrilled with my results! I have only been home for a couple of weeks and I have mostly been resting, but I did look over my games a bit and I concluded that I played very well and also got a bit lucky. I will definitely have to work hard in the future if I want to maintain play of this level.
In terms of the competition, the US championship was a huge challenge. Did you have a specific approach going into the event?
I tried to be a bit less direct. I am naturally an aggressive player who thrives in complications, but nowadays, computers have analyzed almost all sharp main-lines out to a draw. I focused most of my preparation on making sure I could get playable positions with Black, and I was pretty content to accept equality with White as long as there was some fight in the position. This is very atypical for me, but it certainly worked well!
It would be intriguing to know what was going on in your mind before the final round of the US Championship, especially considering Fabiano’s recent last round exploits…
I was a little nervous the night before, but the day of the final game (against Awonder Liang), I felt fine. I knew the stakes were high, but I made the conscious decision to not play the game any differently than I would if it were round 1. What I had been doing so far was clearly working, and I thought it would be a bad idea to try and tinker with my approach because the situation was not a normal one. Also, for the first time in the entire tournament, I got a very pleasant advantage with White out of the opening. This eased my nerves a lot.
All smiles after winning the US Championship! (Picture: Lennart Ootes/Saint Louis Chess Club)
Then came the comprehensive win at Capablanca Memorial. Did the eventual victory margin of 1.5 points come as a slight surprise?
I was surprised that I managed such a high score, but not surprised that 7.5 would win by a lot. In the previous edition, for example, Sasikiran won with 6.5/10, and then I tied for second with 5.5. If 5.5 is often good enough for second, then one can expect 7.5 to be first by a wide margin.
After playing two long round robins, the action shifted to the American Continental, a Swiss event. How did you successfully deal with an almost immediate change in format?
I got very lucky! I certainly struggled in the beginning and earned some points I did not deserve. I had a very dry and equal endgame in round 2, and in round 4, I was completely lost as early as move 18! I somehow managed to win both games, and after that, I managed to hold things together a bit better. I had a small hiccup against Flores but it went unpunished.
Sam’s last move was 25… Rc7. Can you find the spectacular winning continuation that Flores missed in this position?
In general, I have a lot of praise for the South Americans I faced – I was expecting to have to fight tooth and nail to get interesting positions, but for the most part they were happy to fight with me, showing no signs of playing for a draw (something I was a little worried about) or of fear of my rating. I think this is the right attitude for success in chess and I expect a lot of South Americans to get stronger in the coming years. It took me some time to find my groove, but I was playing well by the end despite being quite tired.
Which victory out of the three holds the greatest significance for you?
Certainly the US Championship! Every tournament win is a success, but it is a completely different feeling when it comes ahead of three top-10 players. I am proud to be an American and have dreamt of winning the US Championship for as long as I can remember. It’s gotten tougher every year as our young stars get stronger and stronger and more and more strong GMs switch their federations, and it felt amazing to win the toughest one to date.
Shankland won the US Championship ahead of such distinguished names as Caruana, Wesley So, and Nakamura.
It has been a splendid run, and there must have been a lot of interesting games. Which are your personal favourites from this period – can you tell us something about them?
There are so many interesting games to choose from! In general, my favourite kind of games are ones where I play well in all phases. If I had to name a few, I really like my wins over Awonder Liang, Aleksandr Rakhmanov, and Jeffrey Xiong. In all these games, I got an edge from the opening and felt that I played very well to maintain it all through the game and eventually win, despite some very stiff resistance from these strong opponents.
The stunning final position from Shankland’s victory over Xiong at the American Continental!
Before this purple patch, was there something that you chose to do differently?
I already mentioned trying to be a bit less forcing. I don’t think there was too much else other than that. Most probably, my recent jump is the result of years of hard work paying off. I was stuck in the mid-high 2600s from 2015 through the start of 2018 despite working really hard – perhaps now it’s time to reap the rewards!
Your association with Jacob Aagard is well known in chess circles. What can you tell us about it?
Jacob has been a great coach. I hadn’t had much coaching throughout my life, about 1 hour per week from 1500-2300 or so, and nothing afterwards. He has certainly been instrumental in my development, and I can particularly name calculation as a skill I have really improved while working with him. I still make a lot of errors in sharp positions of course, and I always will, but minimizing them requires constant work.
Your book ‘Small Steps to Giant Improvement’ was recently released. Can you tell us something about it?
‘Small Steps to Giant Improvement’ is a book about pawns, and more specifically about the premise that they do not move backwards. Of course, we all know this as a basic rule, but it has been a topic that I think has been mostly, if not completely, ignored in chess literature. I broke down the five main reasons I believe a pawn may wish to move backwards, but it cannot, and did a chapter on how to avoid each of these unfavourable situations in your own games. I then went back over each reason a second time, with the focus instead on provoking your opponent’s pawns too far forward for their liking. In the end, there is a section on doubled pawns. Pawns don’t move backwards, but they also seldom move sideways!
Sam’s recently released book – Small Steps to Giant Improvement – focuses on crucial aspects of pawn play in chess.
Did the work you put in for the book play a role in your success?
I am not sure, but it would not surprise me. If nothing else, it was a little break for me from the rigors of normal chess study. Sometimes I think I work a little too hard, and having some forced time off may have helped me re-adjust. Still, it has to be said that my first two events after writing the book produced solid but normal results, and it was only several months later that I caught fire.
And do you plan to write more books? 🙂
Haha, someday perhaps! If I have a couple months off from tournament play at some point, I might write a second volume of ‘Small Steps to Giant Improvement’ that could focus on pawn related topics the first volume ignored, such as passed pawns, isolated pawns, etc.
Going ahead, what are your personal goals and plans?
My goal is to be a World Champion. I will almost certainly fail, but I have always believed that one should set lofty goals and shoot for the stars. Even if you come up short, you would have likely reached the maximum you could as per your capabilities. For example, I would be much happier aiming to be World Champion and peaking at #5 than I would be aiming to make the top 20 and peaking at #20.
Blitzkrieg
Half an hour before a game, you are generally found doing…
Mostly reviewing my lines! I am not prepping anything new at this point but trying to make sure I have memorized everything I needed to for the upcoming game.
Your favourite pastime…
I love sports. I go to the gym every day, and I like to watch games on TV. At the moment, I am following the World Cup pretty religiously. I am rooting for Spain (Ed. – as we post, Spain has been knocked out by Russia), but if I had to guess the winner, I think Belgium has the best chance. It has definitely been a very exciting World Cup so far – some lesser known teams have pulled off big upsets – and anything can happen in the coming elimination rounds.
One country you haven’t visited but would love to visit…
There are so many! If I had to pick one, I would say South Korea. Unfortunately, I don’t know of too many chess tournaments happening there, but maybe I can go there sometime for pleasure.
If not a chess player then…
In all seriousness – and this is probably a pretty uncommon answer among chess players – I think I would have done well in the military. I don’t consider myself a super-talented chess player, and I got to where I am mainly by being very focused and pushing myself as hard as I can to be the best I can be. These are the qualities that, in my opinion, make a good soldier. In another life with a different upbringing, where I first met active duty members and veterans as a kid instead of as an adult, I could easily see myself going to the West Point.
One non-chess celebrity that you look up to…
I really admire Antoine Fuqua. He is my favourite film director by far, and most importantly, I admire his perseverance. Much like myself, he is a late bloomer in his field, not reaching high levels of success as a director until his mid-thirties. In an era of people becoming wildly successful younger and younger (especially in chess!), I find it inspirational to see people who find success later in life. It reminds me that despite being old and decrepit at 26, I can still push myself to reach for levels higher than I have reached so far.
It is not every time that 27 Grandmasters grace an open tournament in India. However, such was the case at the very well organized 2018 Kolkata Open, which also saw the participation of the great Nigel Short. At the end of nine rounds, GM Narayanan Srinath, who started the tournament as the 14th seed, emerged as the resounding winner. On his way to the title, he notably beat two 2600+ opponents and boosted his rating to 2549, his personal peak.
Post his splendid performance, we caught up with Srinath for a quick chat. In this interview, Srinath describes his journey to the title, provides valuable practical tips, and also underlines the reasons that made the Kolkata Open an organizational success. Read on!
Grandmaster Narayanan Srinath
Shubham Kumthekar: Kolkata Open was one of the strongest Indian opens in recent times. How do you feel about winning such a tournament with a splendid rating performance of 2737?
Narayanan Srinath: It was a wonderful feeling. I can’t remember having a better performance in my career so far. What makes it more special is that it was an Indian tournament with 8 Indian opponents. If I am ever confronted with a horde of dementors and have to conjure a Patronus charm on demand, this would be one of the memories I would go to.
The field at the 2018 Kolkata Open was no ordinary. As many as 27 Grandmasters had participated, including former World Championship challenger Nigel Short!
Did you have a specific goal or certain expectations going into the tournament?
As I stated in my earlier interview for Follow Chess, I generally prefer not stressing on result goals. This is based on the general credo that ‘It’s not worth spending much time/effort on things outside one’s control’. I prefer to focus on the process goals. In this tournament, my aim was to try and exert more effort than my opponent at every level, beginning from the preparation. I also tried to consciously try new things as much as possible in an endeavor to get out of my comfort zone and grow.
At which point in the tournament did you feel that you had the title firmly in your sight?
In 2011, when I began training with GM Kunte, one of the first things he taught me was tournament strategy. He told me that, if I have a certain aim, say scoring 7.5 out of 9 rounds, and if I bring myself to 6.5/8 in 6 tournaments, then 3 times out of 6, I’ll achieve the goal of 7.5/9. This helped me a lot practically because back then, I used to get adversely affected if things took an undesirable turn in even one game in the earlier parts of a tournament. Since then, the general thinking about my tournament strategy has been to think about the tournament situation only in the last 1-2 rounds. It wasn’t different this time. Only after getting to 7/8 did I really think about the championship.
Looking back, were there any specific things you did before or during the event that played a role in your victory?
I don’t think there was anything special that I did. However, as Jim Rohn stated, “You are the average of the five people you most associate with”. In my case, I usually spend most of my time training/working with players of my strength or stronger than me, for example, the little devil Nihal Sarin. It also helps to be surrounded by a great support system – family and friends. Apart from this, I had a three-hour long flight just a couple of days before the tournament, where I re-read ‘Mindset‘ by the Stanford Professor Carol Dweck, which in my opinion is something of a must-read for people interested in growth. Aside from the young kids who’ll benefit a lot from inculcating the growth mindset early, it is also important for parents and coaches.
Which were your favourite games from the tournament? Can you tell us something about them? I didn’t outplay any of the GMs wholly convincingly. However, I liked the game against Abhijeet Gupta the most. I think I equalized normally from the opening and I don’t think I was worse at any point. I felt that position was balanced at most stages and he could’ve taken a repetition, but he overextended. But overall, I felt that the quality of the game wasn’t too bad.
Can you find the move that Srinath played in this position?
As for the game against Karthikeyan Murali, I was out of the book after 5 moves. I think I played well for the next 10 moves and had a sizeable advantage after 15 moves. But then, I lost the thread completely. The position worsened gradually and with 30 seconds each, it went from -.5 to -5 until things took a very fortunate turn. The quality of the game left a lot to desire, but I think that’s a byproduct of trying new things and is part of the learning process. I think playing a lot of blitz games before the event against quality opposition helped a lot in handling the 30-seconds-each situation, apart from improving my tactical alertness.
With this victory, you have now reached your peak rating. What are your future goals and plans?
I don’t have any specific result goals as far as the playing part is concerned. Playing chess gives me a lot of happiness and that’s my prime motivation. Having said that, chess is a fascinating game with a lot to learn, and one of the goals is also to constantly learn new things and play better than I do now. I train more than I play these days, and I find a little more meaning in that. However, it hasn’t been straightforward to give adequate time towards this, so I am now exploring ways to find a way to be able to teach a larger number of students by using my personal methods. The launch ofPremier Chess Academy in Delhi andAvant Garde Chess Academy in Malaysia is only the first step in a journey of thousand miles. The next ChessMine event will be stronger, more entertaining for spectators around the world, and of better quality. Ideally, I envision a tournament where players get to share the arena with some of the best in the business, broadcast to millions with commentary by people likeKomarov, opportunities for C-suite executives to exchange notes with the best Indian players, and a certain former world champion present. I am not sure if I and my mates can execute all of the above but this is what we are aiming for. We’re looking for dates at sometime around November.
Kolkata open, as we noted earlier, was a really strong open. What do you think needs to be done to encourage the regular participation of a good number of strong GMs in Indian opens? I don’t think there’s any magic secret to this. The fact that so many Indian GMs participated in Kolkata Open is no accident – they simply provided the best conditions I’ve experienced in India so far. 1. Strong GMs and a strict rating floor: In general it’s undesirable for a player focussed towards growth to be the first seed of a tournament. This is the reason we don’t have our Indian team members playing in India. But if there were a handful of 2700s, I am sure they would also love to join. 2. Quality accommodation and conditions: In Kolkata, the GMs were accommodated in five-star hotels that were very near to the venue. The overall average quality was high for everyone.
3. One round per day. 4. An excellent hall that had good lights and a fantastic ambiance. 5. Excellent support staff for the organizers who took care of the players the way Indians take care of guests. Some of the volunteers even took the guests for shopping apart from ensuring seamless organization and making sure that all the exigencies were met. My special thanks to Dibyendu Barua and DBCA for making this wonderful event happen.
The name of Aruna Anand is taken in chess circles with a sense of admiration. Having been Vishy Anand’s manager, support-system and a guiding light, apart from being his life-partner of course, Aruna has had a lion’s share in the sparkling career of the Madras Tiger. By playing multiple roles and taking charge of different aspects of her and Anand’s life, she facilitated the creation of the right environment for Anand by allowing to him focus majorly on his chess – something that is absolutely essential for a top-level chess player.
On the occasion of the International Women’s Day, we caught up with Aruna for a quick chat. Read on to know more about the superwoman of Indian chess!
File photo of Aruna Anand and Viswanathan Anand | REUTERS.
You have been a major pillar of strength behind one of the world’s greatest chess players of all time – how will you describe your journey? What sacrifices did it entail?
I think it has been a lovely roller-coaster experience that we will always cherish. The happy memories are easy to remember. The difficult moments define your relationship more. I think Anand had to more of the hard work… However, we think of it as an equal partnership – both sides just put in their best.
What are some of your qualities and/or your experiences that hold you in good stead when managing multiple facets of your life?
Multi-tasking, patience (Anand may find it hard to agree!), and the ability to just get the job done.
How does Anand’s life revolve around his wife-cum-manager? 🙂
It keeps revolving… We enjoy being parents, being a couple, and being sportsperson-manager. And they are all connected.
Having seen a World Champion up close, can you outline a few qualities that define a world-class sportsperson?
The ability to never give up, to feel responsible for your own failures, and to understand that the family is always by your side.
Who are some women and their qualities that you admire?
There are many. I think women who have achieved a lot of success not only had to deal with big problems but also a lot of day-to-day issues, which sadly are clubbed as women’s duties. We have a lot of great women chess players & it would be nice to see them continue after marriage and strive higher.
What would be your message to girls aspiring to make it big in sports or their chosen field?
I think Anand’s word on this is to enjoy the challenge.
Blitzkrieg
What are your favorite hobbies?
Dancing, painting, and baking
Who is your favorite sportsperson? (Apart from you know who!)
Zidane and Federer
How many languages do you speak and which are they?
Tamil, Hindi, English, and Spanish … German is very much a work-in-progress.
Danish GM Peter Heine Nielsen has carved a name for himself as the most successful second of modern times. An expert theoretician, he was part of Anand’s team for ten years, helping him to four consecutive World Championship titles in the process. In the last few years, Nielsen has been Carlsen’s second and has guided him to a couple of World Championship titles as well. While today Nielsen is mainly involved in seconding Carlsen, he also boasts of an illustrious chess playing career. He reached the prestigious 2700 landmark in 2010 and is the first and only Danish player to have achieved this feat.
In the following interview, Nielsen sheds light on the job of a second, explaining the all-pervasive role a second plays. He shares his experiences of working with Anand and Carlsen, while also reminiscing his first interaction with a young Carlsen who answered every question posed but was eventually more focused on eating Nielsen’s pizza! Finally, Nielsen talks about the game of Shogi, his new-found love. Read on to know more about the ‘big Dane’!
GM Peter Heine Nielsen (Photo: Wikipedia/Stefan64)
Shubham Kumthekar: You are one of the most successful seconds around in world chess. How do you feel about it and what can you tell us about it?
Peter Heine Nielsen: I feel very lucky to have worked with two of the biggest chess talents in the world, who as well as being true champions, are kind and interesting persons as well. At the age of thirty, I would have never guessed that my life would have such opportunities, but the last 14 years have indeed been an interesting and unexpected adventure.
How do you approach seconding?
I started working for Anand and Carlsen when they, at the respective times, were already the best players in the world. It obviously meant they did something right. As such, my role has always been to support the direction they wanted to go in. There is a major difference between being a football coach, for instance, where you are dictating the strategy, and coaching in an individual sport, where the player himself is the one in charge.
Apart from helping with the actual chess, what role does a full-time second play in a player’s success?
Our role is to be supportive, and generally, you also see the players and their seconds sharing a strong friendly relationship. Being supportive is crucial apart from providing concrete preparation. Such support can range from discussing psychological elements to helping the player distract himself from the chess events by going bowling or by playing basketball. It is a second’s role to do his best in helping a player get ready for the next game in every sense.
“You generally see the players and their seconds sharing a strong friendly relationship” (Photo: Lennart Ootes / Grand Chess Tour™)
You worked with Vishy for a good 10 years, winning four World Championships! Which of these victories was the most challenging of the lot?
All of them were memorable! But clearly, the match with Gelfand went wrong in many ways. For a start, we overprepared by working three months straight and practically not managing to use any of it in the match. On the verge of collapse, Vishy managed to raise his game, and we seconds found some interesting ideas when it mattered. Now, it feels like good memories! But at that time, it was obviously very shaky.
One event that absolutely stands out from your ‘Anand days’ is team Anand’s 40-hour ride to Sofia. Can you share some memories of this interesting incident?
It is my best team-building experience ever! We had great fun using a magnet chessboard and my tablet computer to go through some Catalans, and without engines, we started looking at some new concepts that were even used heavily in the match. As it was a rather long trip, we also found space for the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Of course, the trip was tiring, and we lacked the necessary time to settle in at the venue. Even so, it was easily outweighed by raising our spirits and by bonding as a team.
From the Anand days: A dinner after Anand’s 2007 World Championship triumph in Mexico (Photo: Frederic Friedel)
Let us talk about Magnus. You have worked with Magnus since he was very young. How did you first meet him?
I saw him at a tournament in Gausdal. But the first time we spoke was at a junior camp in Oslo. I was responsible for teaching the older group but had about an hour with the youngsters, including Carlsen and Hammer. Magnus was basically answering any question posed, and at the lunch-break, he was somewhat annoyed that I had no extra material ready and seemed more focused on eating my pizza instead. Which led to my first general impression of Magnus – a very talented and a very curious kid.
Magnus approaches openings in a unique, fresh way. How do you contribute to it?
Well, as stated earlier, my role is to support his approach. I might tell him that my computer does not seem to approve (an idea), but we try to be positive and support his creativity.
Always watching, always supporting. (Photo: Lennart Ootes / Grand Chess Tour™)
What, in your opinion, is Magnus’ mantra to success?
I think Magnus is successful because he is clearly the best player! Of course, he does a lot of things right as well and has a great support team. But at the core of it all are his unique chess skills.
Talking about aspiring players, how can a developing player make the best use of the engines and related tools to improve his game?
I am not sure I have the right to speak on this one. I have worked with two players, who were already number one when I started. Of course, I have some thoughts, but they are not really based on experience. I used to be one of those who pushed the computer to the limits and squeezed out as much value as possible in the opening phase, but these days I also seem to recommend understanding things, even some endgames. I guess I am getting old 🙂
You have been playing minimal active chess in the last few years and are mostly involved in seconding. How does it feel – do you ever feel the urge to play more? 🙂
Not the slightest, actually. Apart from, like most others, having fallen out with my federation, I also think working for two great players as Anand and Carlsen makes you understand your own limitations 🙂 And I enjoy following their games much more than my own, and would rather see them play an opening idea than use it myself. Still, what feels the worst is the rather steep decline in my playing skills. It is not at all a pleasant sight looking at one’s games when one has the feeling that the games used to be on a considerably higher level, and now they are not. Like with most players, I do actually believe that focusing on it would lead to considerable improvement. But most likely, we will never know if that is the reality or I am just lying to myself.
How did you come across shogi?
I was introduced to shogi by Jacques-Marie Pineau, a Frenchman living in Tokyo, who is like a bridgehead between chess and shogi in Japan. When I visited Japan in 2013, he organized a chess-shogi session with the legendary Yoshihara Habu, an honour I did not understand the full extent of back then. But then, I got completely fascinated by the game, and I still am.
The initial position in shogi, a Japanese chess variant.
Just a few weeks ago, I came back from the international shogi festival in Kitakyushu, Japan. I guess my level in shogi is about 1800, which is quite decent by European standards. But the game gives me a lot of pleasure. I follow the opening discussions and big title matches even if it is challenging to do so without reading any Japanese or because of the fact that the games are played at odd hours due to the considerable time-difference. But that is what fans do, I suppose?
I interviewed Tisdall last year, and he seems to enjoy shogi as well. Then, I saw a picture of Pelletier playing it… What, do you think, draws chess players to shogi?
I would actually twist the question and state why people stay away, if okay? There is absolutely no money in Western shogi as the players are so few and the level is so low compared to Japan. So the environment is of enthusiastic hoppy players, who travel Europe at considerable expense to play tournaments. Also, it is hard getting used to dropping from expert to beginner as well as the fact that learning shogi does require getting used to the pieces which are written in Kanji etc. There are a lot of roadblocks, and if you are not determined and dedicated like a month to it or so, you will drop out.
So why are some drawn to shogi at all? Well basically, it is a great game! I will say it is better than chess in many ways – no draw problem, all games are complicated fights, and ultimately, it always comes down to mutual king-hunts. The material is more fluidly valued, and initiative and king-safety are much bigger parameters in shogi than in chess. Also, the journey of learning a game from scratch is very interesting. You start realizing how hard it is, and how many misunderstandings you have to overcome on the way in order to achieve even a decent level. If anything, I now respect my chess understanding much more than I used to! GM Tiger Hillarp Persson, who plays Go, made a very relevant point that it is very useful as a teacher (of a particular game) to learn a new game, and realize how things look from the beginners’ perspective. It is fun to learn new things. In shogi, I feel that my skills are improving, while in chess… it is painful to talk!
Last but not the least, who do you see as Carlsen’s probable challenger in the next World Championship? 🙂
I look forward to knowing who he will be. But till then, I will relax from thinking about it 🙂 I hope MVL will qualify to the candidates (Ed. – In the end, MVL did not qualify) because then, we will really have the top six rated challengers in the Candidates. And then, let the best man win!
Blitzkrieg
Favourite Cuisine…
Being back from Japan recently, I will have to say their food is lovely.
A book that has had a major influence on you…
Bent Larsen’s 50 selected games. I always travelled with the book in my back during my youth. But in general, his overall writings influenced not just me but a whole generation of Danish chess players, which turned out to be the strongest generation we ever had, exactly for that reason. Of non-chess works, I like Thaler and Sunstein’s ‘Nudge’ a lot.
A song both you and Magnus love listening to…
At camps, most often it is the Marseillaise.
If you had a chance to meet a non-chess celebrity of your choice, who would he/she be?
Angela Merkel, I will say.
If not a chess professional, then?
I quite liked the two years I spent studying at university; so probably something in the academic world.
